>>3889
>When Trayvon saw Zimmerman following him, he may have seen the gun and felt afraid for his life

And maybe when Zimmerman saw Trayvon, he looked into his aura and realized he'd be the next Mao Tse Hitler and he had to kill him to save billions of lives. Maybe Squirrel Girl leaped out of the comics page and killed Martin for looking at her funny, and Zimmerman's covering for her. Maybe Maggie Simpson did it and Homer's having Zimmerman framed.

If we're just gonna start making shit up to fit various arguments, that is.

...the sad thing is
This is mostly making florida look bad, though more specifically SanFord which always seems to be segregated in this day and age

>>3889

I somehow don't believe Zimmerman carried his gun around so everyone can see it. If Trayvon saw it from the start I doubt he would confront him.

>>3891
>>3893

Okay, fine, sorry I said anything.

At the very least he's out of the neighborhood watch. Against the rules to carry a gun on those partols.

>>3868
>the prosecution having to attack Zimmerman's character rather than his actions, to convince the jury that he's a Bad Man Who Needs To Be Punished regardless of what they can prove
You say that like it doesn't happen in every trial.

500 bucks says Mr. Zimmerman doesn't take the stand.

>>3876

Intent to follow is not intent to murder, Sage.

>>3898

Zimmerman still made the choice to follow despite the 911 dispatcher asking him not to. He chose to follow Trayvon, and whether or not he intended to provoke a confrontation, his actions helped provoke a confrontation which ultimately ended with one person dead.

Trayvon Martin might still be alive today if George Zimmerman had not chosen to leave his vehicle while armed with a loaded weapon (against the patrol rules of his Neighborhood Watch group). The prosecution needs to prove Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon when he left his vehicle, while the defense must cast reasonable doubt upon the prosecution's case to have any hope of beating the murder charge.

Even I agree the prosecution will have a hell of a time proving Zimmerman's intent, especially if Zimmerman refuses to take the stand (as the prosecution won't have an opportunity to cross-examine him).

>>3899
>>if Zimmerman refuses to take the stand
like I said, the defense would be have to be pretty stupid to let him take it. It's just...I can't think of a single response he could give to "Why did you leave your car?" or "Why did you follow the victim, in spite of the 9-1-1 dispatcher's orders?" that wouldn't incriminate him.

Interesting development.

They expect Zimmerman to get a reasonable bond, but if he takes the bond, he may not be able to claim economic hardship for his defense which then would put him out of range to fund his defense on his own since the estimated cost is over a million for this case. This would put Zimmerman in a position of a plea bargain possibly for a lesser charge.


Interesting analysis. Heard it on the radio, so don't have a link quite yet.

>>3905

Another development: Zimmerman's current lawyer says Zimmerman wishes to meet privately with Trayvon's parents.

Hoo boy…

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html

This might shed a little more light on the whole thing -- though likely not much.

Just as a reminder, everybody, this is the guy that raged, with fire and brimstone passion, "God DAMN America!"

Also, I am really tired of that exact same image of Martin being used as if it's the only one that exists of him.

I know it's a tall order due to purposeful saturation, but does anyone have anything like an actually current image of him? Just for the sake of my sanity? I'm starting to wonder if that's the only pic of him where he looks even slightly presentable and everything else between birth and death has him scowling at the camera and making gang signs.

>>3909
There's images form his Facebook of him with gold teef and flipping off the camera

>>3908
4 months later SanFord is right back to how it is...
friend find it funny/weird that some black folks outside of sanford refuse to go thru it

Sorry about the text, I couldn't find a version of these images without it. Some of them had worse.

But I'm posting it mostly because the more I think about it, the more the oversaturation of Martin's picture from when he was twelve bothers me as yet another deliberate piece of misreporting in this whole case. It's more about the attempts to make it about an evil racist (because remember, Zimmerman is half white, meaning he's half racist), because who could look at that sweet little face and see a potentially dangerous thug? It thus must be because he's black, and Zimmerman therefore must be a racist, and he must have therefore been looking for an excuse to kill a black kid because all racists are murderers waiting to happen.

The thing is, the saturation image does not represent what Zimmerman saw. If he saw a black kid that looked like a thug, it seems likely it's because he saw a black kid that was trying desperately to look like a thug.

>>3912

Did he see Trayvon acting like a thug, though? Did Trayvon do anything while Zimmerman followed him (via car) to give off the idea of "thug" other than wearing a hoodie?

We'll never know for sure, but those Facebook pictures and Trayvon's school suspension don't play into this. For all we know, Zimmerman didn't even know Trayvon before the shooting, which would mean he couldn't have known about the Facebook photos and the school suspension when he saw Trayvon from his car.

>>3913
>Did he see Trayvon acting like a thug, though?
>but those Facebook pictures

Sage. I want you to look at that bottom image.

Not the OP image. Not the sweet smiling face of a twelve-year-old. I want you to look at the saggy pants, the knit cap, the gold grill.

Tell me you'd honestly see all that and think "Why, that's an upstanding member of the community. No one could possibly think he was capable of doing something wrong unless they were a vile racist."

Well. Go on. Lie to me.

If the Facebook pictures didn't matter, that's the ones they'd be using, not one that's FIVE YEARS OLD, usually paired with a mugshot-style one of Zimmerman. Rant about "OH NOES A HOODIEZ!?!@$!@#$!@!!!" all you want, but when Zimmerman saw Martin walking through his neighborhood, he did not see an angelic little child who happened to have dark skin and be wearing a hoodie (that one supposes in this alternate universe where Martin only didn't have his angel wings on because he'd loaned them to an orphan, said "I love school and my momma" on the back). And that's not because he was a racist and his RacistVision(TM) crafted the foul imagery of thuggery from nothing. Martin was deliberately engaging in thug lifestyle. He was making himself look like a dangerous individual. On purpose.

I mean Jesus Christ, I went into this thinking Zimmerman fucked up, but the brainless lynch mob that's built up against him and is determined to portray Martin as Saint Trayvon of Florida, patron saint of poor little black children shot in the face for no reason by racists, would be almost enough to make me want to defend that poor gun-toting fucker even if every time someone mentioned Martin's death he giggled with glee.

By the way, don't make me crop this and put it as the top image for this board. I'm so sick of the one-sided interest in these peoples' character flaws that I'm about ready to do it out of spite just for bad reporting, let alone bad commenting.

Sorry for the triple post, but I mean come on, let's be honest. Drug problems? Doesn't matter. Suspension? Doesn't matter. Who was living where at the time? Doesn't matter. Grades? Doesn't matter.

Image? That matters.

The media has basically admitted that it matters by refusing to use current pictures of Martin. If image didn't matter into the perception of an individual and the outcome of what happened, they'd put his gold grills out there for all the world to see without a thought. They're admitting that imagery of him dressed like that, looking like that, would affect peoples' perception of him, just like it affected Zimmerman's. Every time you see a story use that one, singular, angelic photo of Martin, they are admitting that if they showed him as Zimmerman saw him, people would think about him a different way. That more thoughts might start turning to "Well he does look like the sort of guy I don't want around when I'm getting money from the ATM", regardless of the race of the person viewing the image.

There are indications that Martin was doing his best to look like the sort of guy who'd steal something if he wanted it or kill you if you got on his bad side. It's the entire point of thuggin'. If that's who Zimmerman saw walking through his neighborhood, it does change why he thought Martin was up to something, it does change why he followed him, it does change why he was armed when he was checking this out. It goes from "Guy sees some black kid just walking along, decides to grab a gun and trail him for no reason" to "Guy sees some black guy dressed like a mugger, makes sure he has his gun before going to see what he's up to".

hey now, dont go into the "he was acting/looking like a thug area" its an equivalent of that damn old lady who thought I was in a gang just cause I was black cause of the other black folks who were in gangs in the area.

then heres also a thing Neighborhood watches even patrols state you do not engage the person in florida.

I know my state is fucked (damn gun lobbyist are here), not to mention its quite easy to get a gun in florida (19 million residents, 6 million own guns about a mil or so concealed/open)

>>3915
To be fair, the guy on the right isn't Martin, there are other images of him in a very similar pose though.

>>3914
>Martin was deliberately engaging in thug lifestyle. He was making himself look like a dangerous individual. On purpose.
So if a woman dresses in a certain style of clothing...

>>3919

Yup, tooootally the same thing. You've caught me, I secretly support making rape the official currency of the United States.

>>3920
I think that anon was making the point that a woman who dresses like a slut is likely a slut, not that she "had it coming" if she is raped.

You missed the point.

>>3921

I understood the point they were attempting to make, but it is not an actual point. It is a transparent ploy to shout "EVIL! You're not allowed to criticize certain people's life decisions or you're a racist sexist rapist Nazi!"

But hey, I guess that when black people try to look like thugs, it's wrong to say that they look like thugs. Then the "point" is apparently that a woman who dresses like a prostitute is asking to be raped, as oppose to having someone come up and ask her what rates she charges?

Oh, wait, no! Perhaps the point was that black people are too simple and unintelligent to understand that when they're "thuggin'", that means they look like thugs! In that case >>3919 seems to be saying something horribly racist, I think you should take it up with them.

Not that the "point", even if it were there, would be relevant, since after all I'm not aware of any laws against putting out (which sluts do), but there are laws against robbing people (which thugs do).

Also ignoring the fact that I wasn't saying Trayvon was "asking for it" by dressing like a thug even so, thus it's spurious ad hominem to accuse me of something even further unrelated like saying a woman dressed like a slut is "asking for it". Rather I was pointing out that Martin was making an entirely different impression than the angel-faced child in the OP. Specifically that it's quite possible he might have been (intentionally) appearing as someone to be regarded with suspicion. Thus that it was perhaps quite understandable for Zimmerman to regard him with suspicion and as not just another dude out for a walk. That was pretty much it.

But y'know... lynch mobs can't really be reasoned with, so I think it's time I stopped trying. I'll just sit back and watch the whole thing draw to what is sure to be a sad and depressing conclusion.

>>3920
>>3921
>>3922
>>3923
The point was that judging a person's attitudes based on what they wear, in any situation, is completely bullshittingly retarded. No one should give a fuck what Martin or Zimmerman look like, on either side of the debate. Turning this into "But but Trayvon looks like an angel and Zimmerman looks like a psycho!" vs. "But but Trayvon looks like a thug and Zimmerman looks like an everyday guy!" is a completely false dichotomy that no sane person should engage in.

And yes, the media is being bullshittingly retarded about it, but arguing against it is just falling into the same trap. The media demonized OJ too and it didn't change that he did it.

I mostly think the whole thing stems from how Sanford where all of this took place is the problem. I dont know if anyone else here is from florida but those that do will know how bad of a place sanford is. Its nearly segregated (to the point the majority of the black community actually go to a DIFFERENT school than the white community) This kind of thing isnt new to us in florida, nor is it new to sanford. I'm pretty much waiting for this to blow over, get swept under the carpet and everything is back to normal (florida's normal that is)

>>3924

What is a first impression? It's an assessment of an unfamiliar person that happens in less than a second and is a strong influence on how you treat someone.

It's not always fair but its life.

>>3926
Pretty sure we've moved past first impressions now that it's almost two months after the shooting.

Not to mention the whole point of a trial is to present all evidence and avoid judging based on first impressions.

So really, we can just get rid of the whole appearances bullshit.

>>3927
I think he meant Zimmerman's first impression of Martin, now our first impressions of the two involved in this.

And that's all what it will boil down to. How was Martin dressed and acting, how light or dark was it when the shooting happened, did Zimmerman know Martin at all? (Pretty sure that's a big nope, btw.)

If Martin was walking around late at night, and it was dark, he had on a hoodie, with his hands shoved deep in his pockets and he was slouched over as he walked somewhere, at the very least that does give off a 'don't fuck with me' vibe, which would set off all the mental alarms of someone patrolling the area.

If he was walking casually with his arms not shoved in his pockets and you could see the fucking bag of candy in his hands, then you'll just think the kid wanted something to munch on.

The problem is, as always, we'll never know. What I'd like them to do, is if they have any, get any video surveillance of Martin from the store when he bought the skittles, see how he was acting then, how he was walking. Get undeniable proof one way or the other of how the kid was carrying himself. Reporting on drug use and suspension is one thing, but Zimmerman didn't know Martin, he acted off his first impression, and how Martin was acting that night, on camera, will be some of the best proof one can get.

One thing I think that might've made Trayvon get violent: if he saw Zimmerman chasing after him, and IF Zimmerman's gun was in hand... fight or flight.

And if I personally saw a guy with a gun chasing me down, and he was bigger than I was, I'd probably fight. 'Cuz if I run, that's just gonna get me chased more and maybe shot. If I fight, at least I have a chance with a good punch or something.

Not sayin' I necessarily think that's what happened. But Zimmerman ignored repeated insistence to NOT chase the guy. I wouldn't be surprised if the gun didn't stay in wherever he kept it, either.

One of these two images I'm posting is a joke.

The other isn't.

One was made by a person messing around, and the other by someone being dead serious.

Which is which?

>>3940

You can't fool me. There's no such thing as Sweeties.

>>3941

I was gonna say the same thing. And what is "Share size?" Wtf would I share my Sweeties?

>>3994
The one you see on /k/ occasionally of the image he took of himself flipping off the camera is better.

>>4083

Riiiight, because no one ever pushes the boundaries of good taste and propriety just because they can and because they think they could make a buck off of it.

It's a phenomenon totally unique to those bloodthirsty evil gun owners.

>>4084

It all depends on what type of canvas the blood and guts are sprayed onto.

>A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

>Zimmerman faces a second degree murder charge for the Feb. 26 shooting that left the unarmed 17-year-old high school junior dead. Zimmerman has claimed self defense in what he described as a life and death struggle that Martin initiated by accosting him, punching him in the face, then repeatedly bashing his head into the pavement.

http://news.yahoo.com/abc-news-exclusive-zimmerman-medical-report-shows-broken-204911351--abc-news-t
opstories.html

>>4089
well, it's settled then.

I got what I wanted. An arrest, an investigation, and a trial.

Granted I'd like to know why he got out of the car in the first place, but he'd have to be pretty stupid to answer that question

>>4090

Which is precisely what was needed: justice. If they can prove that he was justified with his actions, wonderful, it went through a process that should hopefully put both sides at ease.

It really is a shame that we might never have anything better than speculation on the exact series of events though, most glaring of them being why Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. "He's a thug" is not a very good reason.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11736208-trayvon-martin-killed-by-single-gunshot-fired-from-intermediate-range-autopsy-shows?lite

This is an interesting twist. Zimmerman says that he grabbed for his gun after Trayvon started to grab it himself, then fired at Trayvon. This possibly suggests that Trayvon may have backed away out of point-blank range (about 3 feet).

>>4092

Not to keep posting, but I'm going to retract this as they apparently clarify "intermediate range" as 2-4 inches.

>>4093

Soooo basically the distance that would have resulted from Zimmerman trying to shove Martin off of him while Martin was on top of him wailing away, if that's what happened.

>>4094

Well, Trayvon was apparently the stronger of the two. But it's irrelevant as forensics did say that he was shot from a shorter distance than I assumed. I was wrong about that.

This is just grotesque

http://www.blackyouthproject.com/2012/06/another-unarmed-black-youth-shot-killed-darius-simmons-was-only-13-years-old/

at least the nutjob was arrested for the murder